035 | The Most Powerful Component of Category Creation with Mark Organ, Founder of Categorynauts | Studio CMO

Podcast by | December 24, 2020 Interviews, Positioning and Messaging

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The Episode in 60 Seconds

What does working with CEOs have in common with driving category creation? You must have a compelling vision.

Mark Organ, the creator of Eloqua and other companies, joins John Farkas for a discussion about:

  • The challenges of founding companies
  • Why some leaders don’t want to define a category
  • The most important factor in marketing: your customer telling others
  • And more

Our Guest

mark-organ black shirt-editMark Organ is the CEO of Categorynauts. He helps companies create and dominate new categories. He also coaches CEOs to achieve their goals in business and life. He founded Influitive and is the author of the book, The Messenger is the Message: How to Mobilize Customers and Unleash the Power of Advocate Marketing. Leaders throughout North America and Asia know Mark as a go-to-market consultant for SaaS companies who, most famously, founded and led Eloqua, the undisputed leading Enterprise marketing automation and CRM powerhouse now operated by Oracle.

 

Show Notes

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You can reach Mark Organ at his LinkedIn profile or by emailing him directly.

When you have the opportunity to lead the conversation, then you have the opportunity to lead the conversation. That demonstrates you have the competence, command and courage to lead. — John Farkas

Mark Organ believes that leaders who can create categories aspire:

  • To be a great leaders
  • To build amazing new markets
  • To build incredible wealth for other people

They are much more excited about their category vision than they are about amassing personal wealth.

The most powerful component of category creation is the underserved hero. The underserved hero is a customer who plays an important role. That role will be different for each category, but don’t miss identifying your underserved heroes and rewarding them.


 

Golden Spiral has a number of free resources about differentiation and category design:

The Real Market Value of the Soul of Your B2B Brand

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Positioning Worksheet

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4 Important Steps to Crafting a Powerful B2B Point of View

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Seven Steps to Create a Strategic B2B Competitive Analysis

Seven Steps to Create a Strategic B2B Competitive Analysis Golden Spiral-web

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Free Download from Anthony Kennada

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Transcript

Mark Organ (00:01):

I think great category creators really do put their customers upfront and have their customers do as much of the talking as possible. And I think where a lot of category creation goes awry is when marketing consultants figure out what the category is, as opposed to these very special people who are the, I call them the underserved heroes, the underserved heroes that—and you have them in your business—that will one day become powerful. and numerous because of the powerful, differentiated ideas that you have in around your category.

Mark Whitlock (00:52):

Welcome to Studio CMO. You’re in the place where we have real life conversations about the issues that face marketers in the health tech space. And we have listeners from all across the B2B tech space. John Farkas, the CEO and chief storyteller of Golden Spiral is our host. John, glad to have you on board again today.

John Farkas (01:12):

Greetings Mark. Good to see ya.

Mark Whitlock (01:14):

And John, you have something in common with our guests today, and that is that you are a founder of an organization. And John, do you remember back in the heady first days of Golden Spiral, what was something that was on your mind as a founder?

John Farkas (01:29):

You know, for me, it was clearly the opportunity I saw for organizations to do a better job telling their stories. It just was driving me crazy to see the number of assumptions people were making, the number of hops they were willing to take to just assume that the market was going to get what they were putting forward. I knew that there was an opportunity to help that get into a better place. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. It’s about how to build the bridge from where people are to where you want to take them as a technology leader, as a, as a solutions provider, how do you get them to move into a better understanding of what it is that you’re bringing?

Mark Whitlock (02:17):

And the person you have that in common with is Mark Organ. Mark is the CEO of Categorynauts, and he helps companies create and dominate new categories. He also coaches CEOs to achieve their goals in business and life. He founded Influitive and as the author of the book, The Messenger is the Message: How to Mobilize Customers and Unleash the Power of Advocate Marketing. Now leaders throughout North America and Asia know Mark as a go-to market consultant for SaaS companies. He’s got a background in neuroscience and a passion for applied psychology and most famously he’s a founder. He founded and led Eloqua, the undisputed leading enterprise marketing automation and CRM powerhouse, which is now owned by Oracle. And so Mark, thank you for joining us on studio CMO.

Mark Organ (03:04):

It is my pleasure. Thank you.

Mark Whitlock (03:05):

And what’s something that you remember from the days of founding.

Mark Organ (03:09):

Wow. Um, I mean so many things, but you know, the things that really come to mind are the struggles we overcome and that’s probably true of most people, right? It’s probably true of you in your businesses. You think about the dark days that you’ve had and how you overcome so much adversity, including even in yourself. Um, you know, I remember when we were four days for bankruptcy, we were close to banks and free three times actually. Yeah. I mean, look, people don’t know that. I mean, Eloqua was a bootstrapped company. We raised $166,000 and got profitable on that and ran a company profitably for three and a half years before we raised our Series A um, so we had lots of close scrapes with death. I remember, uh, we were about, um, Oh, this was four months away from death. And we scored an amazing meeting with a division of general electric, uh, called global exchange services or like, Oh my God, our ship has come in.

Mark Organ (04:10):

This is great. And then we were presenting to a key people at this company. And then all of a sudden we didn’t hear anything on the other end. I said, Hey, what’s going on guys? Like, I’m not hearing the things that Mark, we will have to postpone this meeting. There’s a lot that’s going on. Um, the date was September 11th, 2001. Um, and at the time when we were presenting to them, the planes hit the World Trade Center in New York. But anyway, we, uh, we did win that client. We won that client with their stationary budget. I’m not kidding. They had a big digitization initiative in the company. And so there was money left over that would normally go to pay for paper clips and staples. And I guess when you have a big division of GE, that’s a lot of money. And so they paid for our service for three months out of the paperclip budget. And that is how we kept our company alive. And we eventually got the company profitable by signing on more GE divisions. If it wasn’t for that, we would have absolutely kicked the bucket.

John Farkas (05:23):

That is a great segue to where we’re going, because from paper clips and stationary to technology and automation, right? Cause that’s what we’re talking about here. Right? Exactly. Let’s spend some time today talking about category and category creation and what it takes and inherently, when we talk about that idea, we’re talking about the idea of from, to moving people from an existing understanding to a new way of doing things, a new way of seeing their world a new way of approaching the problem that they have that are keeping them from being as, as they possibly can be. And that’s a jump, it’s a jump for a lot of people because a lot of people are stuck in their paperclips and their stationary and they need to see a way out. They need to understand what you can do to effectively be different. You know, what it means to send an email instead of a stationary, a letter on stationary or in this case, leveling that step up a notch with the kind of sophistication that we’re seeing, being able to be offered right now, it is a remarkable moment in innovation in our world.

John Farkas (06:33):

You know, as AI has moved from the back labs and super heady space and open source and free running applications of really extraordinary technology, it’s opened the door to some incredible solutions and that’s opened up a lot of new categories. So Mark, I’m curious to hear from you as, as you are interacting with CEOs of leaders, of organizations, of marketing leaders who are really bringing clearly innovative solutions to the market, what are some of the challenges that you typically see in those scenarios? What are you see that, that kind of trips your trigger and lets you know, that there’s an opportunity for a discussion and how they can really improve their game.

Mark Organ (07:20):

I really work with CEOs on two main things. One is a leadership development. Uh, so helping them become, um, stronger, uh, more effective leaders. And the second is around developing your category. So I only work with people who want to build and dominate a large category. That’s, that’s what I’ve done in my career. So what I get excited about, and so I want to work with people like that and there’s a common element in those two things and that is communication and storytelling. Um, so I really resonate a lot with what you said about the, the power of storytelling, the power of narrative, um, because one of the things that effective leaders do is they paint a really effective picture of the future of a bright future. Uh, and then the clear path that you would take in order to get there. And, um, the brightest future is actually one that is often a new category.

Mark Organ (08:15):

That is a, a really exciting story that has a magnetic appeal for people, especially the kind of, you know, missionary people who want to be part of a movement. So for example, you know, Eloqua and Influitive, the two companies that I’ve been been involved with, um, you know, the powerful story around Eloqua was that there needs to be a measurable and repeatable way to generate demand. You don’t have to wait for demand to come to you, right? But you can go out there and generate it yourself with the power of this new thing called the internet, the internet and email using the right way can be used to nurture sales prospects along. And only when they’re ready to have a conversation, can we have a conversation with them? That’s a powerful narrative. It’s a powerful story. And it attracted people who believe with really, almost a religious fervor that the future was not about, you know, people cold calling on the phone and about being bothered with spam and whatnot. And so, uh, I really found it to be quite harmonious, to work on both leadership development and category development because of this common element of creating this vivid vision.

John Farkas (09:27):

When you are working with an organization, when you come in and they have the opportunity to interact with leaders of an organization, how do you know when there’s a category conversation needs to take place? What are some of the emblems, some of the indicators that tell you that we really have a category conversation that needs to happen to help them into the market?

Mark Organ (09:46):

Because I really do work at the CEO level. They actually do have this differentiating philosophy about what it is that they’re doing and very different point of view and perspective as, as everyone else. I mean, that’s the first thing that I look at. I can’t manufacture that, you know, if someone says, “Hey, I want to build a category” and I go, “Well, what’s your vision?” And their vision is to build a better mouse trap. There’s nothing wrong with companies like that. Okay. There’s nothing wrong with companies like Zoom. So I know Eric Yuan from Zoom, and I actually had this conversation with him while I was CEO of Influitive. And, and honestly, he didn’t really have a category vision. He just wanted to make web conferencing that actually works. Um, and it does. And it does most of the time I’m having problems lately. But yeah, I mean, um, for the most part, you know, it works and, you know, there’s lots of amazing companies that get created that way.

Mark Organ (10:41):

Um, but those are not the people that typically I work with. I work with people who, even though it might take them several more years than they otherwise would. And with lots more trials and tribulations, they would rather build this great monument. That’s something that’s new and different for the world. Uh, even though it may not be as successful as if they entered a category, it’s just the way they’re wired. It’s the way I’m wired. So I understand these people, um, and, and generally there’s like a hole in them are around significance. They need to fill it. They need to fill that hole of significance. Um, so for them to go and do what everyone else is doing, but just a little bit better, faster, cheaper, just doesn’t work for these, for these folks. And you probably know these people, they’re, they’re usually a little cuckoo.

Mark Organ (11:35):

Um, but those are my people. Okay. I love these people. So that’s how I know that I haven’t real category creator is that there is, uh, you know, uh, Steve Jobs-ian in Mark Benioff-ian, you know, type of person there. They’ve not grown into Steve jobs or Mark Benioff yet. Okay. But they have that potential. They aspire to be a great leader and they aspire to build an amazing new category. They aspire to build incredible wealth for people. They typically are much more excited about their category vision than they are about amassing personal wealth. You know, when I start seeing those sorts of data points, I know I might have someone that’s a good fit. And you know, like you guys, I’m in the service business these days. Although I have some exciting dreams of products, I’m a software guy. So I am thinking about products, but I’m mainly a service guy.

Mark Organ (12:27):

And so, you know, the way to make money in and services is you need to have great clients. You need to have great clients that trust you that are, you know, willing to give you nice margins that are willing to stay with you year after year and continue to grow. Uh, you need to have those flagship accounts, which means you also need to have the guts to turn away business. And, and I do right. I have to. Um, so that’s why it’s a really good question. Like we need to select our clients, the ones that are going to be the most success,

John Farkas (12:56):

But when you have the opportunity to lead the conversation, then you have the opportunity to lead the conversation, you know, and that is worth, I mean, that that’s establishing thought leadership. It’s showing that you have the competence and command over the space and the courage to there. There’s a nice competence, command and courage. I got to, I ought to write a book, but you have the confidence, command, and courage or the space to assert that and not be afraid. And that says something about who you are and what you’re bringing to the table.

Mark Organ (13:30):

I think great category creators really do put their customers upfront and have their customers do as much of the talking as possible. And I think where a lot of category creation goes awry is when you have marketing consultants, figure out what the category is, as opposed to listening to these very special people who are the, I call them the underserved heroes, the underserved heroes that—and you have them in your business—the people that you serve that will one day become powerful andnumerous because of the powerful, differentiated ideas that you have in around your category. So at Influitive, the underserved hero was the customer marketer. Okay. So before we came along and Influitive customer marketing was probably the least interesting area of marketing. Okay. But these were the people that were in charge of connecting prospects with happy customers, for reference calls over a telephone, um, or getting a case study, that sort of thing.

Mark Organ (14:34):

Okay. Um, and, and we said, Hey, there’s a brighter future for these people. And we met people, we met some customer marketers that had a much bigger vision for what they could accomplish and that they could be the people who could generate so more value from customers, referrals, references, case studies, videos, you name it, anything involved in selling to, and through customers. They could drive that. Um, and it’s really because of those people becoming more powerful and numerous that Influitive’s become a great company. Now with eight digit revenues growing nicely profitable company can be quite an efficient company when you’re building a category creator. And one of the criticisms that people have about, um, category creation is that they feel it’s very expensive and it certainly can be. But one of the myths that I want to dispel with Categorynauts and big part of my differentiated value prop, my lens on the world is category creation can actually be easy, like paint by numbers.

Mark Organ (15:38):

Okay. It’s a step-by-step process. It doesn’t have to be that expensive. There is a methodology that you can use so that you can build a great, efficient company. In fact, more than half of my clients today are profitable. They’re profitable companies that are growing well. And, uh, you know, uh, one of the things that is interesting about the B2B SaaS space is that it is globalized. You know, one of my clients is based in Brazil, um, and they are going to absolutely own the content marketing marketplace space as a company called Raw Content. You know, they have costs that are a fraction of their domestic competitors here, American or European competitors. You know, there’s a lot you can do with that. There’s a lot you can do with having a really low cost structure, but yet you’re selling in us dollars or in euros.

Mark Organ (16:35):

Um, and, uh, frankly, the Brazilian software entrepreneurs that I’ve met, I’ve spent some time down. There are as sophisticated as anyone that I’ve met in Silicon Valley. Increasingly there’s a cadre of folks in India. And I spent some time in India, like in Chennai, where they have some amazing entrepreneurs there. That again are as sophisticated as anyone you’ll find here, including in the area of marketing, which is traditionally where Indian companies have struggled. And you know what, they’re getting more and more sophisticated if you’ve seen, like, for example, the marketing work that FreshWorks is doing here now, and what

Mark Whitlock (17:10):

I wanted to come back to something you mentioned about those who are really successful at defining categories are the most in touch with who their customers are and with their customers need. And I know that you have a background in neuroscience and applied psychology. What is your approach? How do you really figure out what a customer thinks, feels and believes, and how do you help companies and leaders who are going through the category creation process? How do you get them to tap into that and understand that?

John Farkas (17:40):

Because it’s not every day we talk to a neuro-psychologist.

Mark Organ (17:43):

Yeah, no, and I’m not a neuro-psychologist. I mean, the work that I did was on pigeons, raccoons and rats.

Mark Organ (17:53):

Ah, so, you know, you’ll have to ask the pigeons.

John Farkas (17:56):

I think that, that, that could be a good title for a marketing book too. Yeah. Yeah. Understanding your customer, isn’t really doing the humans,

Mark Organ (18:08):

But yeah. Sometimes, you know, I, you put that neuroscience thing. If people go or there may be some special insight, there, there is some insight I did, but not from my PhD neuroscience. But, um, the, the approach that I’ve taken is kind of like what an anthropologist would do. I like to really study these people and spend time with them. Um, these, you know, for example, the customer marketers that include, or the demand gen marketers at, at Eloqua and understand kind of what makes them tick, like what do they read? What influences, um, what other technology do they use? What was it like growing up in their household? Like, I really want to understand them as, as people, as human beings and get a sense for their mental model. Like, I want to understand the, how they think differently from, from others. And that’s where I feel like I got so much of my strength as a CEO, right.

Mark Organ (19:03):

Because once you have a hundred people in your company, that’s not even that many people, but you know, you really get out of touch. You know, you’ve got all these specialists all around you and your only job as a CEO really at that point is just to lead your lead. Right. Okay. So, so many times I found at both of these companies that I founded, that I, when encountering a major problem with respect to whatever may churn was too high, or my sales cycle is too long or, or, or whatever, you know, and I would fall back on the original foundational research that I myself did myself. I didn’t outsource it. You know, I talked to over 800 people before I really got going with Influitive. And so I knew them like very deep inside me, how they operated. And I knew that if I could solve their problems, I would build a big company.

Mark Organ (19:59):

Right? Most entrepreneurs don’t do this most entrepreneurs, frankly, the ones that I know, they really obsess about products. And they think all day about what they can build. And they get excited about that. Again, some of those are great people. You mentioned Eric from Zoom. Like you can do great things with that. But what I counsel young entrepreneurs to do is to get really obsessed with your problem, get really obsessed, especially with the people who have that problem and understand them better than anyone in your company, better than your product managers. I think there’s so much power that comes from that. There’s so much power that comes from when you can review messaging from the marketing department. And you know, it’s not going to work. You know, it’s not going to work because you know the people, right. You look at a PR, you look at, you do a product review and you could see it just doesn’t make sense at the end.

Mark Organ (20:54):

And you can see that the product managers are not getting out of the office enough to spend time with the people who use the thing every day. You know? And so I think there’s a lot of power in that. It doesn’t just work for, you know, you think, okay, that works. If you’re a company of around a hundred people, like what happens when you’re 50,000 people, does this still matter? And, and I think it does, like I remember when the, uh, former CEO and the chairman of Intuit, um, came to Toronto and I got this frantic email at four 30 saying, Mark, you need to be at this restaurant at six o’clock because the chairman of Intuit is going to be there. And he wants to run a, he wants to run a class on how to run a town hall meeting. It’s his thing.

Mark Organ (21:34):

So me and like 13 other founders, CEOs in Toronto kind of went to this place. And, uh, he taught us all how to run a town hall meeting and a proper town hall meeting is when you solicit feedback from the audience and you process it in a way in order to come up with a clear, um, next step, clear recommendation with the group. But the one thing that he said is that what I just ran you through is why Intuit became a great company, is that I would do this with my customers. I would do this with my employees. You know, he prided himself on having, I can’t remember how many, but a very significant number of kitchen table conversations. So there’s what I call the kitchen table is because before Intuit became a B2B powerhouse are mainly known for Quicken and Quicken was used often at the kitchen table with a shoe box full of receipts by, you know, a family that’s doing their budgeting and he would observe them and he would talk to them. And, you know, they’re one of the very few companies in the world that ever beat Microsoft in Microsoft prime, right. They beat Microsoft money in Microsoft prime when Microsoft was throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at money could not beat into it. And that’s because into, it was just more in tune with our users and customers in any way.

Mark Whitlock (22:57):

So take us into a story of, of a company that you’ve worked with and kind of the epiphany that occurred when they really began to understand their customer.

Mark Organ (23:06):

Sure. Um, one that I’m a fan of a company called Knotions, uh, and that’s where the K. Knotions is based both in Toronto and Taipei, which is interesting. Um, their market is all in Asia and, uh, which I think you’re going to see more and more of that. And the reason why is there’s some sophistication in that market that you actually don’t see domestically. Uh, but the category that that they’re creating is one called “pay how you live insurance.” The idea behind this insurance is that people’s behaviors should drive to some degree what pay for and health insurance. And if they have healthier behaviors, they should spend less money on, on health insurance. So I think that’s one of their big ideas. And another one that they’re really excited about is say ensuring the next billion people. So there’s a whole bunch of conditions that people have that are uninsurable today.

Mark Organ (24:05):

And that’s because insurance companies don’t have the data. They don’t, they’re not able to compute the risk, you know, um, around it. Um, and so, you know, together, I think we helped create this, the idea behind this category and they had all kinds of other ideas. The thing that I think really cemented it was talking to them about, you know, let’s talk about how your users, like, how do they talk about these insurance products? How do you, they talked about, well, it should be in accordance with how I live. And so, you know, using that sort of language helped us create the category that was around it. Uh, you know, one that is actually, I do quite a bit of work these days in and around account-based marketing companies. I don’t know how familiar you are with ABM. It’s kind of like the very, it’s like the rage, right?

Mark Organ (24:55):

It’s um, nobody really knows exactly what it is, but everyone knows they want more of it. Um, and so I do quite a work with companies that are in and around it. I actually think that it is a category that is dying. I don’t think it’s a very good or well-defined category. And so I think what’s important is building for companies that are doing work in and around. They’re building a bridge from account-based marketing to the here’s the from and to, from that, to where it is that they’re going. So one company I work with, uh, called metadata, it’s doing really well. Um, and they have a big differentiating idea, and that is the biggest problem that marketers have with respect to doing great. Account-based marketing is themselves. They are their own worst enemy. Okay. That’s their big idea. Uh, and so their idea is to really automate most of the decisions that marketers actually make today, replace those decisions with a machine, um, and that they have this vision where there’s going to be this new type of demand gen leader that is going to have this type of automation, uh, that is making these decisions.

Mark Organ (26:13):

And they are going to spend much more time thinking about, well, what verticals are we going to go after what micro verticals? Um, they’re going to think a lot more about creative and that sort of thing. Um, because the decisions around, okay, now that I got this data from this campaign, I’m going to now do this next campaign is going to be replaced by a machine. So we created this category around autonomic demand gen, which is actually really great. And it’s got this idea where it’s autonomic the same way that you don’t have to think about breathing. Um, you know, if you’re doing this kind of marketing, you don’t have to think about your campaigns. It is all, you know, automatic, but you can see here, the power of this differentiating philosophy, which is not for everyone, right? There’s going to be a lot of people who look at that and go, that’s not for me, but for some people they’re really excited about this idea. They’re really excited about automating a lot of the things that they used to do. Cause I know they don’t do it well. Um, and so anyway, a couple of a couple of ideas there, both companies do really, really well.

John Farkas (27:12):

If you had a CEO at a marketing executive for the same company in a room that was staring at the, the, the mountain of trying to communicate a new idea to an existing market and you, and you had to give them one solid piece of advice, you know, w one thing that you would tell them, this has to be in line in order for you guys to, to climb the Hill that is in front of you. And knowing that there’s a lot of different applications and companies, but what would be the thing that said, you cannot take your eye off of this ball. This has to be in line for you to be able to succeed.

Mark Organ (27:54):

Um, people are bombarded with things all day long. Um, and, and you’ve probably seen us in, in your, in your life where you can communicate a message and people can politely smile and nod and then not do anything, right. They they’re, they’re not going to change their behavior. So I think that a great category creator needs to understand the mental model of the people that they are trying to influence and create some tension so that their mind is open to your ideas. So I’ll give you an example from my work at Influitive, where I would ask people who are marketers, when was the last time you’ve bought something risky or expensive because of an email you received from a vendor? Well, that’s been a while, like, yeah. How do you make these decisions both personally or in your business? You probably reach out to knowledgeable peers, right? So why are you drowning your prospects with email and why are you not investing in surrounding your buyers with their trusted peers?

John Farkas (29:10):

You have to let your, your clients tell your story, because they’re going to have the clearest picture of what life was before and what life is as a result. And for them to be able to make that case for you in clear an uncertain terms of what value looks like from where they were to where you’ve now taken them. That’s where changing. That’s what gives them the comfort.

Mark Organ (29:35):

Absolutely. Right. So, but what I just did with that opening was I, I exposed a lack of integrity and that drives certain emotions in people. And one of the things that I learned as a neuroscientist is without emotion, there are no decisions. Literally, if you take somebody and you blow up their amygdala in their brain, they literally can’t figure out what to eat for lunch. Okay. There are no decisions without emotion. Um, it’s a counterintuitive. You would think this is a higher level, um, thing in the brain. It isn’t. Um, so the emotion that I’m driving in that is that a shame or embarrassment, and because of evoking emotion, then the audience goes, all right, Mark, you got me, I’m open. I’m now open to your ideas, whatever it is you want, I will now consider your ideas because otherwise those ideas would never be considered.

Mark Organ (30:32):

We just had an interesting conversation in the break about the power of narrative and how people’s minds are closed. How do you open people’s minds to new ideas? You can’t open their minds without emotion. And why is it that, you know, why is it that movies have music, right? They, they have music because it drives emotion. And that emotion allows us to make changes in the way that we think. So that’s what I would say is, uh, think about your audience, where do you need to move them? How do we drive the right emotions in them? Um, and, and we drive those emotions by understanding their mental model and introducing tension in that model. So then, then are open at that point to your idea,

Mark Whitlock (31:18):

Huh? Mark Organ has been our guest on Studio CMO today. Mark, thank you so much for being with

Mark Organ (31:24):

Us. And my pleasure.

Mark Whitlock (31:26):

Thank you. This idea of differentiating yourself as a company is so important. That’s all. We have a number of resources at golden spiral to help you figure out how to differentiate yourself in your marketplace, how to rise above the crowd. So come on over to Studiocmo.com, click on the Mark Organ interview. And in the show notes, you’ll find a number of resources to download for free to help you differentiate yourself in your marketplace. That’s studiocmo.com and click on the Mark Oregon interview. And while you’re there, subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast app on any page, you can find subscribe and click and you’ll see a whole host of the best podcasting apps available. Pick the one that’s your favorite and subscribe. That will, you’ll be the first to know the next episode that’s coming up and what’s around the corner. We want you to take advantage of the guests that we’re bringing forward here at Studio CMO, just like Mark Organ, and Mark. If our listeners wanted to get in touch with you, how could they do that?

Mark Organ (32:32):

The place where people are getting to me is on my LinkedIn page and sending me a direct message, you know, but for now that’s placed to get me, uh, I’m pretty public figure. So lots of my stuff all over the internet and YouTube and whatnot. If people want to learn more about my ideas, or you can just email me at Mark at categorynauts.com and I will respond to that thing.

Speaker 3 (32:51):

Thank you so much. And John, we’ve been talking a lot today about customer. We’ve been talking a lot today about understanding your buyer and that drives right at who we are here at studio CMO. Our three core tenants are that you would understand your buyer’s problems, secondly, that you lead out of that empathetic understanding.

John Farkas (33:11):

and always make your buyer the hero.

Mark Whitlock (33:15):

We’ll see you next time on Studio CMO.

New Speaker (33:17):

Studio CMO is brought to you by Golden Spiral, a leading marketing agency consultancy that helps healthcare technology companies establish and communicate their unique message to the right decision-makers. You can find out more at goldenspiralmarketing.com. Our music is from Human Music. Some of Nashville’s greatest studio musicians have created a production library, explore their custom options at humanmusic.com.